Out of Body

Editors' notes: The transcript has essentially been left untouched and unedited. The exceptions:
1. Lines have been consolidated when the same user posted consecutive chat lines in order to make the text easier to read.
2. Notices about friends coming or leaving have been deleted

Out of Body Session Transcript

[11:01] Humbert Xingjian: OK I would like to welcome everyone

[11:01] Natberg Sternberg: hello

[11:01] Humbert Xingjian: if you have not already surmised we are having audio problems and I will deliver an addreess and then we will chat.

[11:02] Humbert Xingjian: Hello to all out there and welcome to the second day of the Borders Boundaries and Liminal Spaces Conference. Todays program will start with a round table talk titled "out of body" with Michele White, Eloise Pasteur, Dore Bowen, and myself.

[11:02] Humbert Xingjian: This will be followed by a tour of select sex industry sites here on Second Life led by discussant Eloise Pasteur. The second session today is "body in quotes" an exploration of the trans-human and cyborg aesthetic with Nathaniel Stern, Jeremy Turner, Stuart Blunt, and Carlos Castellanos. 'body in quotes' begins at 13:45 SLT today. And I invite all of you to attend our third day. A session called 'Game the System' with Patrick Lichty, Joseph DeLappe, Trevor Smith, Kyungwha Lee, and John Bruneau starts 11:00 SLT on Saturday.

[11:03] Humbert Xingjian: 'Game the System' will look at how The idea of subverting/re-imagining the system as it relates to the rules of the game and extends to the conventions of society. And be sure to attend the acommpanying raid into World of Warcraft following the session. For more information on any of these events, please connect to http://arsvirtua.com and follow the link at the top of the page labeled Borders. Let us begin. For the 'out of body' session' I have asked three scholars to meet me here to have a little discussion and debate about the nature of embodiment in the MMO. A few weeks ago I sent a theoretical statement about embodiment to Dore Bowen, Michele White, and Eloise Pasteur; three scholars and artists who have a wealth of experience and knowledge about these topics.

[11:04] Humbert Xingjian: Our first guest, Michele White is Assistant Professor in the Department of Communication at Tulane University. She teaches Internet and new media studies, television and film theory, art history and contemporary visual culture, science fiction and technology literature, gender and queer theory, and critical race and postcolonial studies. She is the author of The Body and the Screen: Theories of Internet Spectatorship; her avatar is Screens Writer. Our second guest, Dore Bowen, holds a Ph.D. in Visual and Cultural Studies from the University of Rochester, an M.A. in Interdisciplinary Art from San Francisco State University, and a B.A. in Media Studies from The Evergreen State College. Her writing and curatorial projects focus on the phenomenology of perception, particularly within the interstices of the temporal and visual arts. Her criticism has appeared in journals and catalogues. She is currently Assistant Professor of Modern and Contemporary Art History at San Jose State University. Her avatar is Sissie Voom.

[11:05] Humbert Xingjian: My third guest is, Eloise Pasteur, an avatar on Second Life and is widely known as an educator, writer, coder, and businesswoman with a first life background as an educator of students with disabilities. She is the author of innovative educational designs that foster in world learning and and is also known for her designs that she sells to the Second Life S&M community. Please note that James Morgan will be Eloise voice today according to her wishes and technical concerns.

[11:05] Eloise Pasteur: Or not, lol

[11:05] Humbert Xingjian: pardon that last since we dont have audio, I had preset this information

[11:05] Lyr Lobo chuckles

[11:05] Humbert Xingjian: My name is Thomas Asmuth, known in world as Humbert XIngjian. I am an artist and I am studying graduate level courses at CADRE Laboratory. My interests are phenomenology, science, and classical philosophies in contemporary manifestations.

[11:06] Rubaiyat Shatner: eloise voice is still in my head

[11:06] Humbert Xingjian: Welcome Dore, Michele, and Eloise. I have some questions but first I am going to start with the statement to set the stage for our audience. Then we can chat and towards the end of the session we can take a few questions from the audience. If you have a question please Instant Message me.

[11:06] Humbert Xingjian: Embodiement in the Synthetic World

[11:06] Humbert Xingjian: Our discussion today revolves around the concepts of embodiment in the MMO. The MMO is still laden with preconception that these arenas are only distraction; the territory of teenage malcontents and social misfits who just 'need to get a life'. I suggest that there is an attraction to the MMO formats for a wider community of people. They are drawn to the MMO as a platform for deep socio-economic, cultural and political pursuits and yet is still labeled with a stigma. I propose a repurpose of the term out of body experience as a description for the interaction with these platforms. These spaces represent a boundary space of the entity in-between. Despite the immediate association with new age spiritualist fringe cultures, Out of Body Experiences are not nearly as much hoodoo or metaphysics as one might associate.

[11:07] Humbert Xingjian: The use of the Out of Body Experience as a metaphor is not to be seen as coy or clever attempt to color this discussion. And it seems point to a transitional space, a borderland of agency. These experiences are part of many practices and arenas of social existence. And indeed, they are obvious deeply rooted as religious practices like meditation, prayer, or channeling. I wish you to consider how Out of Body Experiences appear in other areas such as battle and combat or sexual practice. And don't allow us to forget the 'zone' that we hear often about from those in the artistic professions.

[11:08] Humbert Xingjian: These triggers can and do invoke the sensory separations from the corporeal.

[11:08] Humbert Xingjian: My first comment and question to the panelists is:

[11:08] Humbert Xingjian: This argument has to begin with the discussion of the virtual vs actual, a discussion of whether or not theses MMO arenas are "REAL". Dore and Michele both of you have told me about the very visceral reaction you had when first logging on to SL, creating an avatar, and navigating the space. SO I want to ask all of you: Can you share a bit of those stories of first contact . Do you think these spaces become real for the user when they start to affect a good or bad psychic reaction?Let's start with Dore.

[11:09] Sissie Voom: I've been working on imagination as a kind of perception and I feel that this space IS real but real imagination.

[11:09] Humbert Xingjian: WHen you say real imagination you are drawing wht kind envelope

[11:10] Humbert Xingjian: and the concept

[11:10] Screens Writer: For me, the question is how do discourses about the real and varied representations in setting elide their produced aspects. How is my avatar, through such things as the gesture of typing, supposed to make it part of "my" body.

[11:11] Humbert Xingjian: I feel real reacttion to my faux pas online

[11:11] Sissie Voom: well, i feel that it's an awfully diminished site as a sensual experience (for me) but as an imaginary site it's interesting. but i actually feel little relationship to my body. perhaps eloise disagrees.

[11:11] Humbert Xingjian: does this point to more

[11:12] Eloise Pasteur: I'd say something a bit different: if I engage in SL, which I do very viscerally and emotionally, as well as intellectually, how can I say it's other than real?

[11:12] Screens Writer: Of course, so I felt a certain sense of horror at my avatar gestures---walking backwards--because they marked me in a certain way. I wasn't walking backwards but these representations get attached to some notion of "me."

[11:12] Eloise Pasteur: I've not been a teen malcontent for over 20 years

[11:13] Humbert Xingjian: :D

[11:13] Sissie Voom: so it sounds more like identification we're talking about. . .

[11:13] Sissie Voom: and it's possible to identify with a finger puppet!

[11:13] Screens Writer: Many years ago, a friend logged onto LambdaMOO and was textually bitten by a "poisonous snake" and received a detailed description of his death.

[11:13] Eloise Pasteur: But SL is the thing that has made me cry more often over the last 2+ years than RL did over the previous 20+ years

[11:13] Screens Writer: He never logged in again.

[11:14] Humbert Xingjian: some of what we (my colleagues ) start to feel is immersion from these feelings (gut feelings)

[11:14] Screens Writer: I am interested in thinking about how immersion is rendered by the system design. How does it produce you as a certain kind of body and a consumer who is attached to the system.

[11:15] Screens Writer: It has meaning for the individual but also the individual is produced by the system.

[11:15] Eloise Pasteur: It's been something I've wondered about over the years... why does such a small proportion of people seem to "get" SL?

[11:15] Humbert Xingjian: Wow yes yes and yes

[11:15] Eloise Pasteur: Even of the broadband enabled population :-)

[11:16] Sissie Voom: screens, what sort of system do you feel that sl consists of?

[11:16] Humbert Xingjian: there is something going on here that is a suspension of dis-belief. And I disbelieve because I want to participate

[11:16] Eloise Pasteur: The number of people that fly in, spend an hour or two, or a week, and then... poof gone

[11:16] Sissie Voom: that might help to explain what it "embodies" of the participant. . .

[11:16] Eloise Pasteur: Which I think is the flip side of what Screens was saying

[11:17] Screens Writer: By system, I meant the ways one can produce avatars, the images of places, descriptions of what SL means and how it is your life...

[11:17] Humbert Xingjian: so we get back to imagination from your comment s earlier

[11:17] Sissie Voom: but it is part of a system in the literal sense as well. a company, a server, etc.

[11:17] Humbert Xingjian: imagination=disbelief

[11:17] Sissie Voom: then of course there are the symbols...

[11:18] Screens Writer: it is hard to read against the system since it is so insistent. A student just commented on how disturbing it was when a favorite web site changed its design.

[11:19] Humbert Xingjian: funny symbols, we have talking alot about symbolic acts like alchemy in the lab and with my colleague Rubaiyat

[11:19] Screens Writer: It is at those litlte junctures where we may be able to notice and be able to critique the technologies and their social consequences.

[11:19] Sissie Voom: i think that the particpant's investment must also be addressed...

[11:20] Screens Writer: absolutely, I think many people forget to talk about the work and skilling of participants.

[11:20] Sissie Voom: psycho-analytically speaking. the investment, the desire, no so much the disbelief but the belief. and skilling, yes. and i was thinking about how gaming is the new "viewer"--an outdated concept from modernism. or the "gamer" a certain kind of investment. . . not too invested but playing

[11:21] Screens Writer: actually, I just wrote a whole book using concepts of viewing and spectatorship.

[11:21] Sissie Voom: yes i've read it and like it very much. . . can you expand on this?

[11:21] Screens Writer: what about all those hours sitting, staid, and staring at screens (but not necessarily me). Second Life is one example where the sitting "me" in a chair who is looking at representations becomes an active and empowered body who moves.

[11:22] Humbert Xingjian: eloise, what are the real manifests in your body when on the platform?

[11:23] Eloise Pasteur: All kinds of things. Please forgive me if this gets a little non-PG :-) I'll try to be... tactful

[11:23] Humbert Xingjian: all is welcome

[11:24] Eloise Pasteur: One of the things that I've done since the beginning in SL is engage in sexual relationships, and usually as a sub in a D/s one. Obviously if I'm tied to something in SL, but want to be able to continue to interact I can't be tied IRL. But... I have a number of strong of memories of being spanked in here

[11:25] Humbert Xingjian: and this seem like a contradiction to some since sex is so visceral

[11:25] Eloise Pasteur: and then finding it uncomfortable to sit down IRL the next day, just like if I'd had a RL spanking. I guess it depends on how you think of sex... is it just a function of friction and bodies? Or a function of engagement between two or more people? SL can provide that engagement.

[11:26] Humbert Xingjian: I think there is alot in spirit that leads these moments

[11:27] Screens Writer: when I spent a lot of time MOOing, I would start to think about myself in the 3rd person because I spent so much time writing texts like "Michele eats dinner..." so, I was thinking about myself differently because of the ways I enacted with a system, its rules, and my interests.

[11:27] Eloise Pasteur: And the amount of written erotica suggests quite strongly that we can be turned on by words and how they work on us. SL lets us make that an interactive experience, give and take, responsive to the situation rather than the author's ideas

[11:27] Screens Writer: and of course, some of us find texts to be very erotic.

[11:28] Humbert Xingjian: I am think rules can be beutiful... Hows that for a statement... I think of geometry

[11:28] Eloise Pasteur: ungrammatical? :-) (sorry, couldn't resist)

[11:28] Humbert Xingjian: teacher!

[11:28] Eloise Pasteur: Guilty!

[11:28] Screens Writer: well, I am not convinced that the SL design where I choose F as my option and then the avatar has breasts is beautiful.

[11:29] Humbert Xingjian: I think you r on to something there Screens

[11:29] Screens Writer: I keep pondering the SL fashion magazine with all of its highly crafted clothing that reproduces teh most limited ideas about women.

[11:30] Sissie Voom: yes i've been interested in why, when almost anything might be imagined, second life imagines first life?

[11:30] Humbert Xingjian: As you experienced when your first started an avatar on Second Life, it can be narrow to possibilities. The space is full of ideal shapes and normative expressions. What do you think about the idealizations of the this format?IF there were more alternatives, were more open-ended for the beginner could it become more of a transcendent space?

[11:30] Screens Writer: not even first life, since body size, age, and gender are rendered in much more limited ways by the system.

[11:30] Humbert Xingjian: that was prepared ...

[11:31] Sissie Voom: perhaps it speaks to the desire to be diminished, and i'm in no way saying this disparagingly.

[11:31] Eloise Pasteur: I mentor beginners to SL... they're often overwhelmed by the range of things they can do already. They come thinking SL is a game, so there's a "progression path" they must learn.

[11:31] Screens Writer: feminist theory and the ways I am produced as a body in material settings makes me worry about transcendance. Who gets to leave their body behind? What is wrong with bodies, which are still coded as feminine?

[11:31] Humbert Xingjian: The lack of progression the open ended ness is exactly y I am here

[11:32] Eloise Pasteur: That said, totally controllable body shapes, not limited to human forms would be interesting

[11:32] Rubaiyat Shatner: the anthropomorphic hegemony

[11:32] Sissie Voom: when we say body are we saying "matter"? materiality as opposed to spirit. YES eloise, i want a strange body! why the clones?

[11:32] Screens Writer: or even, what if the avatar could not be a traditionally rendered body?

[11:33] Eloise Pasteur: Although there are a number of people that have found their way around this issue, there are some magnificent dragon avies around

[11:33] Sissie Voom: i know. i'm not there yet.

[11:33] Eloise Pasteur: And Thn, who was here at the start is also an amazing other shape

[11:33] Pling Ping: That's why Thn Doctorow is soo cool! Where is he?

[11:33] Screens Writer: In early text-based settigns where different genders were offered along with M and F, most people chose M or F. Individuals who selected another options were constantly asked for their real gender.

[11:33] Eloise Pasteur: Not here

[11:33] Screens Writer: "real" gender...

[11:34] Humbert Xingjian: he had to return to work I am sure... another network.. I have issues with this m or f choice why can't we be more open ended here? wouuld it scare away too many people and kill the system

[11:35] Sissie Voom: well, that's a difficult quesion. "here" is also here in the usa today in 2007.

[11:35] Screens Writer: do tehse exceptions just point to a notion of the normal and remind people for their nostalgia for material bodies with supposedly clear and fixed genders.

[11:35] Sissie Voom: and gender is part of a system too. a system which we all know has material effects.

[11:35] Pling Ping: There's a correlation between us re-making ourselves in our own image and how the public wants to see realism in art.

[11:36] Sissie Voom: yes! make it REAL>

[11:36] Screens Writer: If we accept Anne Fausto-Sterling and other feminist science studies scholars then real bodies would have to include more than two sexes.

[11:37] Sissie Voom: I'm interested to know from Eloise if play in SL has altered her sense of self and how so. . .(you suggested this in your earlier statement)

[11:37] Screens Writer: I love the concept of cultural genitals--that we believe we know people's real sex but what we are really seeing is performances in most cases.

[11:37] Humbert Xingjian: more3 than 2 sexes is very clear for those who are willing to think about it.

[11:38] Eloise Pasteur: Hmm, has SL altered my sense of self... Yes to some extent.. But, I'm not sure whether it has altered it more than anything else I've invested the number of hours and the emotions I've invested into SL has.

[11:39] Humbert Xingjian: not nearly so dichotomous in the fashion that we all try to parse ideas

[11:39] Eloise Pasteur: Doubtless in part it's altered it in different ways, because they're different experiences to other places

[11:40] Sissie Voom: hours of investment...that's interesting. the hour/change economy.

[11:40] Humbert Xingjian: so I have a quote that I would like to share from the Archeaoblog at Stanford. "We cannot reach the virtual, and the actual is static. The in-between is only designated by its function to bring into the world. It has neither existence nor becoming. It is the space without space, between being and becoming, the space that creates their separation and also makes them coexist and interchange (Grosz 1995:114-116). " - Johan Normark, Standford Archaeolog

[11:41] Eloise Pasteur: I'm not sure it's a direct correlation, hours to change...

[11:41] Sissie Voom: oh. i thought you wrote hours of investment in SL. . .

[11:41] Humbert Xingjian: he is pulling at something here again about possible embodiment

[11:41] Eloise Pasteur: I did

[11:41] Humbert Xingjian: the Platonic Chora? Is this the liminal space that we try resolve our embodiment as avatar?

[11:42] Eloise Pasteur: But you're the one that added the idea of a hours/change economy... I'm merely saying I don't see it as each 10 hours leads to one change

[11:42] Humbert Xingjian: Because according to the dialoge the Chora has no dimension or description

[11:42] Eloise Pasteur: But, the more time I spend somewhere, the more chances it has to change me

[11:43] Screens Writer: My avatar seems more static than this conception of becoming and a move away from linear time. Everything is clocked in Internet settings.

[11:43] Humbert Xingjian: just tthe idf it did it would be actaulization

[11:43] Eloise Pasteur: That doesn't deny that very short exposure to something very affecting can have a bigger change

[11:43] Sissie Voom: this is like an exquisite corpse. compost.

[11:44] Screens Writer: I wonder if the every developing simulations in graphical chat are an attempt to move away from the fractured and multi-directional aspects of the user produced texts.

[11:45] Humbert Xingjian: I guess my traaining in physics give me an optimist view, the potential that the Chora represents is moving to me

[11:45] Screens Writer: I was interested in some flickr tagged images of SL graphical failures where the avatars began to be deconstructed.

[11:46] Humbert Xingjian: whose work was that... do you know?

[11:46] Screens Writer: I have no idea.

[11:46] Rubaiyat Shatner: that sounds like aram bartoli (sp?)s work.. he works with the world as it rezzes and observes the formation phase... it isn't so much a graphical failing

[11:47] Humbert Xingjian: this idea is particularly interesting to me.

[11:47] Rubaiyat Shatner: as it is a forming or proto-visual experience captured

[11:47] Screens Writer: since it was included with some images of detailed normative avatars, it may have had multiple meanings/interests.

[11:48] Humbert Xingjian: I find the times when my avatar get stuck in the walll some of the most beautiful views available... I am glad to hear about this work

[11:48] Screens Writer: or those moments of "drowning."

[11:48] Humbert Xingjian: drowning?

[11:48] Screens Writer: when one "lands" in "water."

[11:49] Humbert Xingjian: Sissy do you get caufght in the ether too? is it annoying or fun? And Eloise?

[11:49] Sissie Voom: i have so many thoughts on this. and It's hard to express them all. But I wonder if this technology is helping us to refigure body as photography did. . . but of course I also stick to the "spectacle" and debord's notion of capitalism's effects

[11:50] Eloise Pasteur: Hmm, yes, it happens to everyone... and although it's not daily, I've had enough time to just look for a target to sit out of the wall

[11:50] Screens Writer: Roland Barthes suggesting he is only produced as body as he poses for the camera.

[11:50] Sissie Voom: and this puts me outside the "affect theorists" but just a bit... yes roland barthes. exactly, produced for the camera.

[11:50] Screens Writer: but, what sort of body am I constituted as by Yahoo! avatars...

[11:50] Eloise Pasteur: The scientist in me looks for a pragmatic solution I'm afraid :-)

[11:51] Sissie Voom: that's what i'm interested in.

[11:51] Humbert Xingjian: SO perhaps it is time to start aking a question or two from the audience... if the audience has a question please IM me

[11:51] Sissie Voom: what is this body since we don't yet have a symbol for it.

[11:51] Screens Writer: yes!

[11:52] Sissie Voom: i'm thnking of portals and nuggets

[11:52] Sissie Voom: and that the body is today a portal.

[11:52] Screens Writer: can you expand on the portal idea?

[11:52] Sissie Voom: well i first i was stuck on "packets" of information and then realized that the domain of significance was perhaps where the packets transport throught like ars virtua is a domain or portal

[11:53] Eloise Pasteur: Ah, Thn is back... and kind of hard to classify as an M or F body

[11:54] Screens Writer: interesting, Thn's avatar construction "cuts" into other avatars but replaces them with bits of background...

[11:54] Sissie Voom: i'm sorry i was trying to see this unique body; could you write that again?

[11:55] Eloise Pasteur: Hit the history button Sissie, and you can read back

[11:56] Screens Writer: If Thn "walks" in front of the other avatars, do they get written over by bits of "background?"

[11:56] Humbert Xingjian: I have a question from the audience

[11:56] Screens Writer: Yaaaah!

[11:56] Heidi TeeCee: I have a question: Do you feel you are acting "yourself" when using your avatar?

[11:56] Sissie Voom: very interesting. . . so he is neither he nor she and neither foreground nor background. . . and a disruption in the graphical representation.

[11:57] Screens Writer: I like the question about if I am acting as "myself."

[11:57] Eloise Pasteur: Yes, absolutely Heidi. Me in meatspace and me in SL is a continuum, a single congruent entity. I suspect not for some of the other people though.

[11:57] Screens Writer: I think this really varies. I always fail at Internet Social Networking sites because I cannot list myself as "Michele White." I perform an identity, which is different than my MW identities.

[11:58] Humbert Xingjian: I have been very commit to making my avatar as close to my body appearance from my rez date. I find that it is a political stance I want to take... I don't have belief in the virtual , I question the designation if my mind is there I am there.

[11:58] Screens Writer: In many ways, I try to resist the attachment.

[11:59] Humbert Xingjian: another question is coming through

[12:00] Doug Whittaker: Humbert...I hear there are people actually working on bending light to make objects invisible in RL. This may afford us in RL to take on diff apearances maybe, besides jut not being seen (invisible). so much of what we do is tied to what how we feel other percieve us....this capabiltiy in SL would then be possible in RL

[12:01] Humbert Xingjian: so doug do you think we are physically approaching avatar hodd:)... hood

[12:01] Doug Whittaker: LOL

[12:01] Screens Writer: I am not clear about the question.

[12:02] Humbert Xingjian: SO that was more of a statement and I have heard about these experiments

[12:02] Sissie Voom: For me the question of desire comes up. Desire for dematerialization which, in a roundabout way, gets to Humbert's question about spirituality.

[12:02] Robins Hermano: I think the questions is (and what this discussion has been about, at least to me) is how does the Avatar allow us to experience ourselves differently

[12:02] Humbert Xingjian: I am very excited about the possibilities of mediating the Rl

[12:03] Screens Writer: I have done research on the term newbie and the ways cultural expectations and an "insider" status are produced through such structures.

[12:03] Robins Hermano: And wouldn't this also happen if we could cahnge our appearance in RL Robins Hermano: I'm not so sure as in SL (at least for now) we text, and that text becomes a voice

[12:04] froggie Yeats: I was in second life late last night, and I did not see anybody in other lands... But I saw few people go in and out of this shoe/clothing stores.

[12:04] Screens Writer: always interesting how computer texts are read as voice or something not quite writing.

[12:04] froggie Yeats: People are extending their RL and SL very similarly.

[12:05] Screens Writer: There was a fashion spread in the SL "magazine" about a designer who is doing material and avatar clothing.

[12:05] Trevor Steptoe: Q: Have the panelists considered avatar systems other than they type in SL? e.g. multiple simultaneous bodies, complex point of view manipulation, shared bodies...?

[12:06] Screens Writer: I have done research on text-based settings and such sites as the Palace.

[12:06] Humbert Xingjian: what was the simialarty Screens

[12:06] Screens Writer: engaging with multiple representations across different platforms is always interesting.

[12:07] Eloise Pasteur: To be honest Trevor... have I considered it? Yes, sure, as a theoretical possibilty. Would I engage in it, which is probably a more interesting question - I don't know

[12:07] Humbert Xingjian: I like the idea of physically affecting the body from multiple contraols Trevor do you have an exaple

[12:07] Screens Writer: I think the narratives about avatar bodies have remained very similar. The level of simulation (or at least the visuals) have changed as processing and design options change.

[12:08] Humbert Xingjian: multiple minds over the body...

[12:09] Screens Writer: but I don't yet think that this setting is hugely different in terms of narratives about bodies and architecture than MOOs or MUCKs.

[12:09] Eloise Pasteur: I'm not sure how well I'd process multiple points of view simultaneously

[12:09] Humbert Xingjian: yes it would be wonderfully surreal... oops there's the real again

[12:09] Eloise Pasteur: And I'm far from sure how well mulitple users would cooperate to move a single body

[12:09] Screens Writer: Aren't we all processing multiple points of views? The different email mes? The SL screen, GUI desktop, the mess on my desk...

[12:10] Eloise Pasteur: Not simultaneously, which is what Thomas's question seemed to be asking about

[12:10] Screens Writer: By the way, there was a significant BDSM community in text-based chats.

[12:10] Trevor Steptoe: Browser based spaces can create the situation in which several pages are open on the same space, leading designers to define what it means to have multiple POVs and movement controls for the same body, or whether to move to multiple bodies.

[12:11] Humbert Xingjian: I want to thank all of you for attending today this was just wonderful and thank you to the audience for your insights

[12:11] Rubaiyat Shatner: transcript will be posted

[12:11] Sissie Voom: Thank you Humbert

[12:12] Humbert Xingjian: you may stay and chat if you wish

[12:12] Eloise Pasteur: Thanks Humbert

[12:12] Screens Writer: I keep thinking of a recent experience in my car. It was horribly foggy and dark and we were in the cracked mess of NOLA. I couldn't see to drive but I also couldn't see to pull over and I waved my hand in front of my face because my view seemed clouded by fog and moisture. I was the car windshield.

[12:12] Humbert Xingjian: and to remind everyone: Eloise tour begins at 13:30,. This is the tour of the second life sex community and industry

[12:13] Screens Writer: thanlk everyone

[12:13] Eloise Pasteur: It will be a short trip btw

[12:13] Sissie Voom: or the background of the optical pattern.

[12:13] Screens Writer: maybe not conceptually

[12:13] Robins Hermano: TY Humbert

[12:13] Eloise Pasteur: I wanted to take us to a furry club too... but couldn't get anyone to agree to let a crowd of people in

[12:14] Humbert Xingjian: One other reminder the next sesssion begins at 13:45 SLT